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KFC JAPAN Denies Revealing the O.R!
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:22 am    Post subject: KFC JAPAN Denies Revealing the O.R! Reply with quote

Hello one and all,

As you are all aware, we here at TCK like to verify as much of our research as we possibly can... Over the last week or two a claim was made that KFC Japan had revealed 8 of the 11 herbs and spices in Colonel Sanders recipe...

I, and a number of others, had serious doubts as to the veracity of this claim, as it seems highly unlikely that ANY branch of KFC Corp would reveal even ONE ingredient in the secret recipe, let alone 8 of them!

As a result of this healthy does of skepticism though, arguments broke out, running to and fro, from different members...

Anyway, in order to put a stop to this fairly, I suggested that the quickest solution would be to simply write to KFC Japan, and ask them directly. However, it would seem that no one took me up on the suggestion, so I - personally - wrote to them myself:

This is the email I sent to KFC Japan, via their website (translated by Google):

Quote:


Hello,

I have read on the internet that KFC Japan have revealed 8 of the 11 herbs a nd spices in Colonel Sanders Original Recipe Chicken, on a Japanese TV program...

Is this true? And if so, may I ask for the ingredient list?

Thank you,

Mark



And this is the response I received a couple of days later (emphasis mine):

Quote:


Customer_service@kfc.co.jp (customer_service@kfc.co.jp)

7/09/2015

To: ***********@hotmail.com

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First of all, thank you very much for using KFC stores as always.
In addition, thank you very much for your inquiry this time.

Regarding your inquiry, please let us reply to you as follows.

The 11 herbs and spices are a part of Colonel Sanders’ secret recipe and the types of herbs and spices as well as the formula especially are managed with strict confidentiality and are not disclosed.

We assume that some of them may have been mentioned in the past but we do not release information regarding the herbs and spices as well as the formula from our company.

We would appreciate if you could kindly understand this and continually use our stores.

Yours sincerely,

Masayuki Ogawa
Customer Service Team
KFC Holdings Japan, Ltd

************************************
 日本KFCホールディングス株式会社
 お客様サービス係 
***********************************




I think this makes the issue VERY clear... KFC Japan has not, nor will it ever, reveal ANY of the ingredients in Colonel Sanders O.R...

NOTE:

Having said this, I am personally impressed by the list of 8 ingredients mentioned as being purportedly from a KFC Exec (The above email proves this NOT to be true, however). And I couldn't blame ANY member for seeking to mix them up into a recipe and giving them a shot! Why not? It would probably taste great. Wink

I only disagree with declaring that those 8 ingredients were "released" to the public by KFC Japan; because - as the email above proves - they clearly were not.

TC

----------------------------------------------

UPDATE - September 10th, 2015:

We here at TCK are always upfront, and try to present every related O.R item, as we receive them. As such, I just received a followup email from KFC Japan, after posing just one more question... (I wasn't totally satisfied with the KFC Rep's answer, especially the part about some of the ingredients possibly already being in the Public Domain.)

I wrote:

Quote:


Thank you very much for your response, and I appreciate the need for secrecy around Colonel Sanders Recipe.

However, you wrote that, "We assume that some of them may have been mentioned."

Do you mean that some of the herbs and spices have been mentioned by KFC Representatives, or by people OUTSIDE the Corporation?

Thank you, and this will be my final question.

Sincerely,

Mark



This is the response that I just received to my personal email address (keep in mind that I NEVER mentioned any Japanese TV Program):

Quote:


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(customer_service@kfc.co.jp)

9/09/2015

To: ************@hotmail.com

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Dear Mr. Mark

Thank you very much for your reply.

Regarding your inquiry, as we mentioned in the previous email, we, our company, do not disclose the types of herbs and spices as well as the formula and thus such herbs and spices were mentioned as assumable ones by those who were making the TV program.

Thank you very much for your understanding.

Yours sincerely,


************************************
 日本KFCホールディングス株式会社
 お客様サービス係 
************************************



My "take" on this email:

It would seem that she is saying that the 8 herbs and spices mentioned by TV-Asahi (a Japanese Entertainment Show), were suggested by the TV Station itself, and NOT the KFC Corporation of Japan ... Much more COULD be read into it, but I'll leave that to others... for now.

Anyway, take it as you will, my fellow Replicators! I am here, largely as a conduit through which knowledge and information related to the O.R is passed. Wink

TC

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The Chook Cook



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We assume that some of them may have been mentioned in the past


This is the part I find interesting. Like I said I was not in Japan and have never seen the show, only going on what the wife has said, and that link to TV Asahi that she found that said that KFC president was on the program and the list of spices.


TC if you reply back to them ask them about this on the TV Asahi Web Page.


Quote from Asahi TV web page.

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Quote:
<ケンタッキー秘伝の11ハーブ&スパイスの秘密>
11ハーブ&スパイスは11種類の原料を3段階に分けて混ぜている。途中まではアメリカの2つの工場で、仕上げは日本の工場で作っているので、工場の人ですら全工程を知らない。前回の特集で、ショウガ、ニンニク、ペッパー類、セージというハーブなど8種類までは判明したが、残りの3種類がわからなかったため、今回はケンタッキーの社長をウソ発見器にかけて、残りの3つのスパイスの招待を明かにすることに。その結果、残りの3種類は「ナツメッグ」「フェンネル」「オニオンフレーク」か!?



They questioned the President of KFC Japan with a LIE DETECTOR to confirm the 8

8 Ingredients so far include ginger, garlic, pepper, sage what are the other 3 are they " nutmeg ", " fennel ", " onion flakes " ! ?

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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Chook, I've written back... still waiting on the next reply. Wink

What I DO find interesting is that the 8 ingredients mentioned can all be found in various KFC Japan advertisements...

In fact, you posted a pic the other day (as did Roger) which was from Japan, and it seemed to have most of the eight WITH the addition of rosemary at the top left of the photo...

A strange coincidence? Or could it be that the head of KFC Japan is playing a trick on the public? He knows the spices and herbs they use in their advertising campaigns, so did he just used them on this mysterious "game" show when asked for the ingredients to the O.R?

I have to admit, it is an intriguing mystery of sorts...

TC

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The Chook Cook



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah you have a point why the hell use the same 8 items in the adverts if they are not the items and they only use 8 items and nothing more I have noticed. NO wait I did notice cinnamon sticks in one of their adverts I was looking at.

Will see if I can find that advert again, I think it was their current advert, give me 5 and I will see if I can get a screen shot.

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Last edited by The Chook Cook on Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In their latest advert they have cinnamon sticks and a few of the 8 in the frame.

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They also have Rosemary in that advert. so maybe Savory is incorrect in the list everyone is using and its Rosemary.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright then, out of curiosity, let's do this then:

So we have:

Coriander
Black peppercorns
Allspice
Sage
Marjoram
Thyme
Garlic
Ginger
Rosemary
Cinnamon

To that, personally, I would add White Pepper, and seeing as I consider garlic to be neither a herb or a spice, I would add Basil... Thai Basil specifically as it has anise (licorice) overtones to it. Wink

Naturally, one would also factor in some good ole MSG!

To any other curious members reading this, give THAT lot a go and see how you fair...

TC

P.S. If you require the above as a complete recipe, give me a yell ("holler", if yer American), and I will provide one. Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have gone this path

Milk and Egg Wash :
400ml Whole Milk to 1 Large Egg

Spices, Greatest amount to smallest :
Mixed pepper as the adverts use Black, White and Pink
Sage
Coriander
Rosemary
Marjoram
Ginger
Garlic
Paprika <------- I am looking in to this
Thyme
Allspice
Cinnamon

Fine flake salt 3 tsp
MSG 6 tsp

Flour :
200g mix of hard and soft

Oil :
Mix of Corn and Canola

After pressure frying, 20 minutes in a 75℃ oven to drain.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So looking at the three photos/images, I have seen so far in the last couple of days from Japan, we have:

Black Peppercorns
White Peppercorns
Red Peppercorns
Sage
Coriander
Ginger
Garlic
Allspice
Margoram
Thyme or Savory (they look alike, but it is marked as Thyme)
Rosemary
Cinnamom


Is that a fair assumption so far? 

I don't think I have missed anything off the list, but correct me if I'm wrong here.

If I were to group the three peppercorns as one vial .. That gives us 10 ingredients in total, that's if I include the garlic as being one of the vials... Or 9 in total, if we were to say the garlic was an element.

So the most we are missing are just 2 ingredients, nutmeg and fennel for example or vanilla, clove or perhaps chilli. White Pepper is shown in the second photograph if you look carefully it is on the table with the coriander seeds.

I wonder what would best match the 11 KFC glass vials ?

You know what I find rather odd is that when you look around this forum and the Internet over the many years, people come up with different combinations and there is still 'something' lacking, but they seem to have the same 7, 8 or so, similar core ingredients and it is just a few things, say 3 or 4 herbs and spices, that are slightly different ... Like I said before, on one hand we tend to see nutmeg, fennel, marjoram allspice etc and on the other you often see Vanilla, bay leaf, chilli & clove.

I often wonder if we are all in fact correct in many ways and that there are more than the 11 herbs and spices and that's the big SECRET! or the 'Suprise'.

Perhaps when the Colonel said there were "11 spices and herbs" initially, he meant just that !... there are eleven spices and then there are some herbs aswell.

It always struck me 'odd' that he used to say the phrase in that way, whereas most people would normally say "11 herbs and spices". 

In fact he says "11 spices and herbs" in the TV demonstration that was talked about in smallgrees thread recently and that's what has brought it back to mind.

Anyhow perhaps I'm going off on a tangent and need to rest like Chook Cook... But to keep a trade secret you do have to prove to a Court that you are doing things to keep a recipe secret and so switching the phrase from "11 spices and herbs" to saying "the recipe contains 11 herbs and spices" might just satisfy a Judge in Court, that the company were doing enough to keep the recipe secure and they could then lawfully class it as a 'trade secret' and afford all the protection that then goes with that status.

I know, I know ... get back in my kennel... or go join Lillybay ... I know what you are all thinking, but I thought I would just express these things anyway, as there is no harm in a bit of 'wild' thinking occasionally.

Ken
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMHO! Ken! Smile

What a brilliant post... Your wit is quite impressive, mate! I mean, 11 herbs AND 11 spices?... Lillybay! Hehe... I must say also, in 10 years of research, I have NEVER thought, or conceived (even in wild pink fits!), that the term "11 spices and herbs" may mean:

11 spices PLUS some extra itty-bitty herbs on the side... Wink

I'm still laughing at the hilarity of that one... What brilliance! Are you sure you're not a comedian in "real" life, Ken?

On a more serious note: I honestly do enjoy these "thinking outside the box" threads... Years ago, I was a lot harsher when it came to "outside" opinions; however, these days I'm more relaxed...

We all realise there is still SOMETHING missing from our recipes... Tis sad, but true... But fighting each other, over differences of opinion, will certainly NOT help us towards solving this greatest of O.R. mysteries.

Thanks mate... For the laugh tinged with a healthy dose of genuine enquiry and curiosity!

TC

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The Chook Cook



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken

I think it is just 11

All the KFC Japan adverts do not even use the word herbs. The Japanese only say Secret 11 Spice Original Recipe


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Even on KFC Japan Videos they only say Secret 11 Spice, there is no mention of the word Herbs.

Decided to see and grabbed some mint from the garden this morning and asked the wife while she was still a sleep in bed what is it and she said it was a Spice and to kindly F off as its only 6 in the morning.

As for the peppercorns, someone posted before that KFC Canada has Pink Peppercorns on a packet. So that is both KFC Japan and KFC Canada.

I am beginning to think Sanders did use mixed pepper and that something special was the Garlic as everyone is saying garlic is not a spice or herb.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to chime in here as I am a newbie on the subject.
I too recall the joy that was O.R chicken when I was a kid. (now 55 year old)

I recently went to an open day at my local KFC and watch them cook
the now o.r chicken and was given some to take home. Its not the same, in smell or taste.

Would I be correct in saying that the original 11 herbs and spices are still being use but in such minute quantities per ratio of flour that it provides no taste but allows KFC to advertise the chicken as O.R ?
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, welcome aboard buzzawak!

It's great to have you here! Smile

Now, you have pretty much hit the nail on the head... I'm very sure that KFC Corp still do use all 11 spices and herbs, however - aside from white and black pepper - those ingredients are in minute qtys.

It is possible too that they have gone the synthetic route and have also swapped out some of the herbs and spices for their synthetic counterparts... Even under a microscope, the official KFC CORP seasoning shows little more than MSG, white and black pepper and salt... It's really hard to identify anything else within the mix these days Wink

But never fear, because TCK is here! My boys and (the odd) girl/s are doing their royal best to bring the recipe back to life, as it was in the 60s, 70s, and even the early 80s (before PepsiCo took over)!

They make me MIGHTY PROUD!

I hope you enjoy your stay, and feel free to contribute as much, or as little, as you like, my new friend. Wink

TC

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Stringbean
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly to me this just tells me that the picture they have on the KFC japan website is nothing more than fiction...if they are telling TC that they would never release the list......then the picture is nothing more than mis-direction....which is WHY many say the same of the vials.....If KFC japan is misdirecting with the photo....then you can argue the same for the vials.


Ken,

CHS used to say 11 secret spices and Herbs....I would not rule word play out either...lol
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The Chook Cook



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buzzawak wrote:
Sorry to chime in here as I am a newbie on the subject.
I too recall the joy that was O.R chicken when I was a kid. (now 55 year old)

I recently went to an open day at my local KFC and watch them cook
the now o.r chicken and was given some to take home. Its not the same, in smell or taste.

Would I be correct in saying that the original 11 herbs and spices are still being use but in such minute quantities per ratio of flour that it provides no taste but allows KFC to advertise the chicken as O.R ?


I would said depending on the country you are in the O.R. could be any spices now days. If you go to my thread you will see what I am talking about in the first post.

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The Chook Cook



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stringbean wrote:
Honestly to me this just tells me that the picture they have on the KFC japan website is nothing more than fiction...if they are telling TC that they would never release the list......then the picture is nothing more than mis-direction....which is WHY many say the same of the vials.....If KFC japan is misdirecting with the photo....then you can argue the same for the vials.


Ken,

CHS used to say 11 secret spices and Herbs....I would not rule word play out either...lol


KFC Japan told TC

Quote:


We assume that some of them may have been mentioned in the past but we do not release information regarding the herbs and spices as well as the formula from our company.



But TV-Asashi Claims this

Quote from Asahi TV web page.

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Quote:
<ケンタッキー秘伝の11ハーブ&スパイスの秘密>
11ハーブ&スパイスは11種類の原料を3段階に分けて混ぜている。途中まではアメリカの2つの工場で、仕上げは日本の工場で作っているので、工場の人ですら全工程を知らない。前回の特集で、ショウガ、ニンニク、ペッパー類、セージというハーブなど8種類までは判明したが、残りの3種類がわからなかったため、今回はケンタッキーの社長をウソ発見器にかけて、残りの3つのスパイスの招待を明かにすることに。その結果、残りの3種類は「ナツメッグ」「フェンネル」「オニオンフレーク」か!?

English

They questioned the President of KFC Japan with a LIE DETECTOR to confirm the 8

8 Ingredients so far include ginger, garlic, pepper, sage what are the other 3 are they " nutmeg ", " fennel ", " onion flakes " ! ?


So either KFC Japan has sent TC a common reply to questions about the ingredients or TV-Asahi is Lying or Both are or I have no idea .... But something is not adding up, Why have the 8 on all adverts and have a TV Station interviews the President and state on their web page that they did interview the President and the 8 items were stated if all is BS?

Saying they
Quote:
Do not release information regarding the herbs and spices as well as the formula from our company.
is in contradiction with what TV-Asahi has stated, as they have said KFC Japan President said the 8.


Unless this
Quote:
We assume that some of them may have been mentioned in the past but we do not release information regarding the herbs and spices as well as the formula from our company.


means
Yes we assume that some of them may have been mentioned in the past ..E.G On TV-Asahi, but we do not release information regarding the herbs and spices as well as the formula from KFC Japan HQ



OH I am getting a headache.

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