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Lillybay's Herbs&Spices
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Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Ads

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smallgree



Joined: 27 May 2015
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Location: Sapulpa, Okla. USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, the Lily Bay recipe has no credibility because it uses soy bean oil, which was an engine lubricant in CHS's day.

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Ken_Griffiths



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts, besides the soy bean oil, is the cost of the 'supply chain' for the 25+ ingredients ... it does not make much ’economical business' sense in that respect.

And if you think about it, from an advertising perspective, the Colonel would have perhaps have been more than happy to say his secret recipe contained over 20 different herbs and spices... without such a statement revealing the true total amount of ingredients.

Even with the number 11, we all know that number, is not the total amount of ingredients (counting the additional elements), but I do think it was the total amount of 'herbs and spices, and that's counting the white and black pepper as two separate ingredients.

A total of 22 different herbs and spices are just beyond my personal comprehension and are (I think) unnecessary, when things are so close to the answer already, with just 11.
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smallgree



Joined: 27 May 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, I bet you wish you were born in 1979. LOL. As you will find out, there are fireworks blazing in other places, partly because I post here. I agree that there are 11 ingredients. Too many will muddy the taste of the recipe. What if Vial C, or Vial E, was Pepperall. Wouldn't that be a surprise. It was marketed for over 30 years, but never publicly. It contained black, white, and OTHER peppers. Paprika and cayenne? This would eliminate either clove or allspice, and leave a spot open once reserved for chili pepper. White and black pepper could have still been used, to add body to the mix, as carriers.

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Ken_Griffiths



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes indeed ...1979, it seems like yesterday... it's amazing how quick the time has flown by.

I don't understand why anyone would get upset if you posted on any (or every) forum... what you do is entirely your own business. I find it odd that others can be so offended by such things.

Anyhow...

I've not encountered Pepperall here in the U.K. and had not heard of it until you mentioned it, but I would see that along the same lines as mixed spice ... a mix made of several known spices, which really should ALL count towards the 11 herbs and spices in total.

My very early thoughts on Vial 'C' was that it was Clove and that vial 'E' was Allspice, but I could never get Allspice to work in my recipes as there was a flowery/floral taste to it ...and Clove was always strong and overpowering. The latter is particularly noticeable when testing recipes side by side with the corporate recipe .. but I certainly do recall in my youth, that there was a 'eugenol' taste to the chicken. As I'm sure you know though, there are many different sources of eugenol in quite a number of different herbs and spices, including Cinnamon, Basil, Nutmeg, Marjoram, Mexican Oregano etc.

I thought for a while that vial C might also be Vanilla Bean or a synthetic Vanilla Powder or Vanillin (infused into dextrose) ... Vanillin in the 1930’s was made from eugenol extracted from Cloves and that really needs exploring further.

I still keep revisiting Clove from time to time and have gone as low as almost 1/32 tsp (0.075g) in my recipes, but it's still not 'hitting the right mark' in my tastebuds, hence I have in the last year or so, gone off to try many other things that have a noteable eugenol content.

I do need however to try different cultivars of Clove and Allspice, just to be absolutely sure about those two ingredients.

On the herb front... I am reasonably sure, in my own mind, that there is Oregano and Rosemary in the mix ... my nose detects both of those things.

I will also mention I have seen the 'skin' fragments of Chilli Pepper in 99x and also paisley shaped spotty leaves that seem to match Savory or Thyme... I have photographed both under a USB microscope and the images are held in my shared library.

I believe Sage in the mix speaks for itself, aswell as being on the 99x label.

I have no evidence of Basil at all, but it seems to work really well and really compliments the right taste. It's also a herb that was mentioned in the Ledington Recipe, which hints at the correct taste of KFC to many 'untrained' folk. I will mention that this next photo below, shows Vial E next to a photograph of Basil taken directly from the Marion Kay website:

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I think their Basil is similar in appearance to vial E, but sadly, it is of little evidential value, just like the many other photo comparisons that we see, from time to time.

My evidence for Bay-Leaf is also limited, but it was found in 99x by dProvo under a microscope, as shown here:

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Bayleaf is a good source of eugenol too.

So, for me, the answers appear to lie in a combination of 5 or 6 herbs ... some of which contain high amounts of eugenol, comparatively speaking. Herbs like Basil, Bayleaf, Oregano or Marjoram are shown on Wikipedia and there is mention of chemical compounds such as eugenol, and many others, that produce the flavour of Anise, Cinnamon, Nutmeg etc.

My personal taste-pallet cannot get along with Nutmeg or Mace ... not even in small quantities in the mix. They both simply remind me of cheap English sausage rolls and pork pie and it's not a taste, or aroma, I have ever encountered in any shop bought KFC chicken that I have ever eaten.

I have tried those two ingredients over and over again in many recipes and at different levels and I just don't get their taste at all as being part of the original recipe.

On a separate note, I do love the taste of green Cardamon spice... it is probably my favourite spice of all, but I cannot taste that in KFC either. That's at 1/16tsp level or above.

I do need to explore Cassia Bark and Chinese Cinnamon and Black Cardamon further. I have particularly neglected to properly research Cinnamon.. it remains on my 'things to-do' list.

So currently, my main research is tied to the herb-side of the recipe and the various different ’cultivars' of Bay-Leaf, Basil, Oregano and Marjoram.

So that's where my research is presently heading. As you know, I am also happy to share all my research with everyone, on every forum.
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smallgree



Joined: 27 May 2015
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Location: Sapulpa, Okla. USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also digging deeper into the herbs. The vials do limit the number of herbs in a way. I think I will reduce some of the spices, and concentrate on the herbs. As you know, the weight limitations are big. More herbs would mean more volume, and less weight. I have been concentrating on the herbs for some time now. I am comparing the basil and tarragon at the present. One may have to go. I have eliminated marjoram because it is too heat sensitive. Bay leaf, an object of contention on these forums, is still a question mark. Again, my fowl brines, for BBQ smoking, all contain bay leaf and cloves.

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