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The Perfection of Colonel Sanders' Original Recipe...

 
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: The Perfection of Colonel Sanders' Original Recipe... Reply with quote

This is a fascinating short documentary on the Colonel... check out the interview with him towards the end where he clearly states that he came up with the "11 spices and herbs", and that he THEN wanted to add just one more ingredient...

Betcha ya never knew about that, eh?

If I was a betting man, I'd dare say that the extra final ingredient was an element now known as "MSG"...

Link to film (Click to View in Separate Window):

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Relevant quote from the above film (Colonel Sanders was speaking about the development of his pressure-fried chicken, when he revealed this absolute gem):

Quote:
"During that time I developed this seasoning of 11 different spices and herbs that complement the flavour of chicken... and there was one more item that I wanted to put in, but I was afraid too because my customer-public was braggin' so on the chicken, it had such a reputation, I's afraid I might squalor it and ruin some of my business' reputation...

But one day I got an order for 500 orders of chicken for a boat trip that was gonna come up Cumberland Lake, and I thought, "...well I'll try out this other stuff in that, those are not my [regular] customers anyway...", so I throwed in two handfuls of this element into the flour, stirred it all up and breaded my chicken in it.

And I was the first to wanna taste that because I wanted to see what I'd done to it, and honestly I had the best chicken that I'd ever put in my mouth; and from that day to this, we've never changed any of those elements that we put in chicken.

- Colonel Harland Sanders"


Last edited by The Colonel on Fri May 29, 2009 3:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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TnKFC



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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Colonel, now that you believe the final 11 spices and herbs came about in '52, do you still believe MSG to be the missing link?
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_____________________________________________

EDIT: 8th June, 2009

UPDATE: Due to evidence provided by a good member here (Thank you Edward!), the case I argue below regarding the final "perfection" date of Original Recipe is no longer valid. At this point in time, we can't "prove" a year... and the BEST of our evidence - as meager as it is - indicates a completion date of somewhere in the 1940's.

I still personally believe though, that the final ingredient (i.e. "element") referred too by Colonel Sanders in the below-mentioned TV interview is "MSG" (i.e. Accent); Which would put the year of Original Recipe "perfection" at just after 1947 (when MSG was first introduced commercially to the U.S)
______________________________________________________

Hey TnKFC, thanks for your question mate...

Now, please forgive me if I seem abrupt in my explanation. I am not trying to be. Sometimes, I just come off a bit gruff due to my passion for this mission of ours... I apologize if I do on this occasion Wink Here's my detailed response:

Firstly, it is not a matter of "belief" my good friend. It is a matter of evidence. Cool

The Colonel clearly stated that he added "the final ingredient" to his famous recipe after a group of folk, who had been boating on Cumberland Lake, placed an order for 500 orders of chicken. Now, if anyone still accepts that the recipe was completed before 1952 (say, 1940 for example), then they need to explain how it is possible for those people to have been boating on a lake that simply did not exist at that time... Construction of the lake was begun in ernest in 1948, and it was not completed until 1952, therefore, the Original Recipe was not completed until then either.

It is very simple logic.

Now, as for MSG being utilised by the Colonel himself then we need to consider certain realities:

By 1952, Colonel Sanders had been cooking fried chicken for roughly 22 years! As most of us know, his method for coming up with the herbs and spices in his famous recipe was by trial and error... In other words, as per his statement regarding the utilisation of common herbs and spices, he would throw a spice (or herb) into his breading mix, and if it complemented the other ingredients, he would keep it. If it didn't work, he would discard it and not use it the next time. He would do this night after night, month after month and year after year for - at the very LEAST - a decade, and at most for 22 years...

Where am I going with this? Read on:

Now, consider the Original Recipe Replicators here on this board. Some of us have been working on cracking the code for 4 years or more. In that time, how many recipes have we cooked up? And of the most common herbs and spices, how many have we personally trialed? 20? 30? All 40 of the cheeky buggers?!

Well, isn't it logical that after the minimum period of even ten years, Colonel Sanders would have utilised and been extremely familiar with every single common herb and spice on the market?! I have little doubt that he would have experimented even with spices that weren't so common in that time period... some pretty hard to get ones, no? So, what about the 22 years I have proven he experimented for? Or, if one is being stubborn and accepts every word from KFC Corp as being "Gospel", then what about 10 years of focused trial and error?! After that length of time working on the one recipe, is it possible that there would have been a "common" herb or spice he hadn't tried already? It is possible I agree, but is it probable? ... No, I do not believe so.

So what possible ingredient (or "element", as Colonel Sanders put it), could he have been referring too, when he said that he wanted to try just "one more ingredient"?

Who here knows what year MSG (or, "Ac'cent") was introduced into America? It was invented in the early 1900's, and it was used by Japanese soldiers during WWII as a flavour enhancer in otherwise very average meals; but it wasn't introduced into America as a regular consumer product until the year 1947...

Well, I'll be... 1947? A mere 5 years before the perfection of Colonel Sanders Original Recipe chicken seasoning...

To my mind, it seems perfectly logical and reasonable, that he would have been curious to test it in his chicken recipe. It was his nature to be inquisitive of such things (Remember the Pressure Fryer?) ... It also fits a "common sense profile", in that it was a brand new product that would have been marketed as making any, and ALL, foodstuffs taste "even better!" The Colonel himself said that he was reluctant to test this new ingredient on his "regular" customers, which is an odd statement to make considering that he had been testing new herbs and spices on his customers for 20 plus years by then! Why would he worry about testing them with just one more herb or spice now?

The answer is he wouldn't... However, it makes sense that he would have been extremely reluctant to test them with this newfangled, "non-American", potentially "exotic" asian flavour enhancer called "Ac'cent". With such an unusual food ingredient (at that time), it makes complete sense that he would have been hesitant in using it.

Then, one day in 1952, a boat load of folks were coming up Cumberland Lake, and they - not being regular customers of Harland Sanders - placed an order for 500 orders of chicken. And this was a perfect opportunity for the good Colonel, nay, a golden one! ... An opportunity that paid off in spades.

So, in summary: Yes, I most definitely believe that the Colonel's "final ingredient" was "Ac'cent", or rather, MSG.

TnKFC: Thank you for the excellent question my friend Wink

The Colonel

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Last edited by The Colonel on Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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TnKFC



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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the detailed response Colonel and great research on Cumberland Lake. Now, while I tend to agree that all the evidence points to 1952( I mean ya don't go 'round selling franchises with a formula yer still tinkerin' with), still not sold on MSG as one of the 11, maybe I just want it to be more exotic. I guess for 1947 it would have been, you could be right. If it is, Why do you think Msg, along with garlic are right there on the KFC packaging, which sort of make them look like additives to me. Funny though, there is no mention of garlic on 99-X. My head hurts! Thanks again Colonel, and no need to ever apologize, my goodness, we're just lucky to have someone with yer passion leadin' the way.

TnKFC
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe... Actually, I'm enormously grateful that you guys are here too! Smile

Now, don't get me wrong though! I do not believe that MSG is one of the "11"... How could it be? It is not a herb or a spice... In the interview, the Colonel says that he came up with the "11 spices and herbs", and that he THEN wanted to add just one more ingredient... This is why I found this particular interview to be so explosive and exciting!

You see? In my opinion this "one more ingredient" - this additive - was MSG Wink

Now, it is true that in future retellings of this story it was "amended" to state that he came up with "ten herbs and spices", and that he then wanted to add the "eleventh ingredient", BUT, in the one other retelling I've heard he sounds very unnatural and wooden... scripted in fact. This earlier telling of his story is very natural, almost spontaneous...

My guess is that his recollection was "corrected" by KFC Corp (In the same way the Corporation changed his common expression of "spices and herbs" to, "herbs and spices"...) so that his final ingredient didn't sound like the "additive" that it was (i.e. something else BESIDES the famous "11"), but that it instead would come across as being the "magical" 11th ingredient instead...

Well, that's my theory anyway Wink

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: The Perfection of Colonel Sanders' Original Recipe.. Reply with quote

The Colonel wrote:
This is a fascinating short documentary on the Colonel... check out the interview with him towards the end where he clearly states that he came up with the "11 spices and herbs", and that he THEN wanted to add just one more ingredient...

Betcha ya never knew about that, eh?

If I was a betting man, I'd dare say that the extra final ingredient was an element now known as "MSG"...

Link to film (Click to View in Separate Window):

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
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Register or Login on forum!



Relevant quote from the above film (Colonel Sanders was speaking about the development of his pressure-fried chicken, when he revealed this absolute gem):

Quote:
"During that time I developed this seasoning of 11 different spices and herbs that complement the flavour of chicken... and there was one more item that I wanted to put in, but I was afraid too because my customer-public was braggin' so on the chicken, it had such a reputation, I's afraid I might squalor it and ruin some of my business' reputation...

But one day I got an order for 500 orders of chicken for a boat trip that was gonna come up Cumberland Lake, and I thought, "...well I'll try out this other stuff in that, those are not my [regular] customers anyway...", so I throwed in two handfuls of this element into the flour, stirred it all up and breaded my chicken in it.

And I was the first to wanna taste that because I wanted to see what I'd done to it, and honestly I had the best chicken that I'd ever put in my mouth; and from that day to this, we've never changed any of those elements that we put in chicken.

- Colonel Harland Sanders"


TC do you have the link to video where CHS describes his final element?
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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lake Cumberland History
Courtesy of
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Located in Clinton, Laurel, McCreary, Pulaski, Russell, and Wayne counties in south-central Kentucky in the USA, the lake’s shoreline measures 1,255 miles and the lake is spread over 65,530 acres at the top of the power pool. The reservoir ranks 9th in the U.S. in size, with a capacity of 6.1 million acre-feet of water, enough to cover the entire Commonwealth of Kentucky with 3 inches of water. The main lake is 101 miles long and about 1.5 miles across at its widest point, the Beaver Creek confluence with the main lake.

Originally planned from the 1920s and enacted by Congress in the 1930s, with groundbreaking in 1941, early construction of Wolf Creek Dam to impound the Cumberland River was halted by World War II. Following the war, work resumed and the dam was 'closed' (completed) in 1950, beginning what was originally named Wolf Creek Reservoir. The name “Wolf Creek” comes from the original planned location for the dam, several miles upstream near the confluence of Wolf Creek with the Cumberland River. Though the location changed, the name remained. The body of water was officially renamed “Lake Cumberland” in 1954.
Wolf Creek Dam is the 22nd largest dam in the United States. The primary reasons for the dam was for flood control of the occasionally wild Cumberland River, and for hydroelectric power generation.

The project was constructed by and is managed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE). The Lake Cumberland Resource Manager’s office is located at Burnside on the Pitman Creek section of the lake. The “main office” is the USACE Nashville District headquartered in Nashville, Tn. The upper lake region is located within the Daniel Boone National Forest, and lake facilities within the national forest are administered by the USDA Forest Service.

Lake Cumberland general statistics
The normal summer pool is around 723 feet above mean sea level.
The tree line is about 725 feet.
The maximum pool is 760 feet (top of dam floodgates)
The top of Wolf Creek Dam is 773 feet.
Lake is considered at “flood control” level from 723-760 feet.
Normal power drawdown is between 723 and 673 feet.
The power generating capacity is considered “dead” below 673 feet.
At 760 feet elevation, the shoreline of Lake Cumberland is 1,255 miles.
At maximum possible elevation of 760 feet, Lake Cumberland is considered to be 101 miles long, with a total surface acreage of 65,530 acres.
Surface acreage at 723 feet is 50,250 acres.
At minimum power pool of 673 feet, it is 35,820 surface acres.
Average depth of lake at summer pool of 723 feet above sea level: 90 feet
Deepest point in lake: original river channel adjacent to Wolf Creek Dam: 200 feet
Depth of river channel upstream of dam to Wolf Creek: generally 160 feet
Depth of river channel upstream of Wolf Creek to one mile upstream of Burnside: generally 120 feet

Comparisons
The shoreline of Lake Cumberland — at the theoretically maximum possible elevation of water — is 1,255 miles.
The coastline of Florida, not including islands, is 770 miles in length.
The total Atlantic coastline of the United States from Maine to the tip of Florida is 2,069 miles.
The total Pacific coastline of the continental U.S. (California, Oregon and Washington) is 1,293 miles.
Lake Cumberland Facts (courtesy U.S. Army Corps of Engineers)—
Lake Cumberland was filled with water in December 1950, and was constructed primarily for flood control and the production of hydroelectric power at a cost of about $80.4 million. Its shoreline measures 1,085 miles and the lake is spread over 50,250 acres at the top of the power pool.
Wolf Creek Dam ranks 22nd in the one hundred largest dams in the U.S. and required 11,568,900 cubic yards of material in construction. It is over a mile long at 5,736 feet. (The concrete portion is 1,796 feet long; the earthfill portion, 3,940 feet.) It is 258 feet high at its tallest point.
The reservoir ranks 9th in the U.S. in size with a capacity of 6,089,000 acre-feet, enough water to cover the entire Commonwealth of Kentucky to a depth of 3 inches. That’s roughly 1.9 trillion gallons.
More than 4.7 million visitors spent 73,252,200 hours in pursuit of recreation and added more than $152,395,044.00 to the local economy in 1999. The number of visitor hours ranks Lake Cumberland 4th in the nation among 383 Corps Lakes.
Since it was impounded, Wolf Creek Dam has prevented more than $500,000,000 in flood damages for cities and communities downstream.
The six turbines at Lake Cumberland are capable of producing 270 megawatts of electricity, enough to supply the needs of an average city with a population of 375,000.
Cost of original dam construction: $81 million
Cost to repair leak in dam (discovered in 1967) during late 1970s: $96.4 million
Costs to make major repairs of dangerous seepage through the dam, discovered in 2004, are expected to be around $360 million. Construction is currently underway, and may be finished by 2012-2014.

I guess that proves the Colonel did not complete his recipe in the 1940’s ... But what was that he added to his recipe during the ferry boat excursion on this lake with 500 guests? ...It must have been MSG!! ... I wonder why he never added it to his 100lb Barrel which was dated 1956. See these images from the museum in Corbin:

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Ken
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Magnus Max



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never quite understood or been clear as to whom was or may have been responsible for displaying some of the spice/ingredient containers, and it’s hard not to consider them as being subtle clues left behind.

With concern to the photo of the can stating "Sweetened Chocolate Flavored Malted Milk Mixture"...there is a line that follows below the phrase "With Added Malt Extract".

I've just recently began my first ever attempts w/ using the pressure cooker and I also used a "Cane Sugar Vanilla" syrup in the egg wash made by "Davinci Gourmet". It was okay, but didn't deliver the caramelized sticky coating that I was hoping to achieve...the finger licking good coating.

I know some have used white refined sugar & even brown sugar, but those two items never really appealed to me for some reason. The idea of efficiency and trying to dissolve a granule into an egg/milk wash just doesn't seem right unless it was converted to a simple sugar.

The "malt extract" on the other hand perks my curiosity. The only experience that I have w/ the product is from when I made home brews many years ago. The malt extract that I used came in a can. It was a thick liquid similar to that of molasses, but what I remember most was that it had a very pleasant sweet taste & a rich caramel like color & it was sticky.

I'm thinking I'm going to attempt using the liquid form in the egg wash, and possibly a different attempt using the powder form in the flour...I'm betting on the powder.

The other pic of where Sanders is obviously tasting the oil...this was the first time I noticed a set of measuring spoons sitting next to the pot...All the more reason to believe that he seasoned his oil. Otherwise, why would he be tasting it?

Also, in the same picture...the inside of the pot has a heavy brown coating. Another unit that I bought has a similar varnished coating above the oil line. My thinking is that it may be the result of caramelized sugar & not so much from the oil. That would have been some serious neglect on the cleaning side of things, which would be out of character for the Colonel...being the stickler that he was.

Just my 2 cents...l enjoy reading your posts Ken. Now that I have two digital scales (one for flour, the other is a jewelers scale), I'll be attempting to get on a similar wavelength & testing my math skills.
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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnus Max,

I have followed your posts about the resin in your two Mirro Matic 16qt cookers and now this suggestion about Malt Extract is very worthy of further research. I can see you have a strong passion to find the answer to the Colonel's O.R. the same as me and many others at TCK. Welcome aboard!

It is something sweet and sticky that I am missing too, I think, and it will be something like Malt Extract, dextrose, or molasses that may provide the answer.

I have a photo of the Chocolate Flavoured Drink from the Corbin Myseum shelf so I have posted it here for others to see (the image isn't brilliant, but the bit where it says with added Malt Extract is still visible just about) :

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Here is a picture of the colonel tasting 'something' from his fryer, but it is possible he was tasting his gravy and not his oil. It's difficult to say what's in the pot:

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Anyhow Malt Extract has to be worth a try and if it fails at least we can carry on and make some darn fine beer to drink whilst we're cooking ...hic!... hic!

Nice to hear too that you are using jewellery scales to weigh ingredients etc. it has made a big difference to all my recipes and the maths I think is a worthy line to follow alongside all the other research and taste testing.

Now I need to find a form of malt extract here in the UK that maybe used with the recipe. It's not something I have ever purchased or tried before, so if you have any suggestions as to brands etc. then that would be useful.

I hope you get your Mirro Matics cleaned up and running and some of that resin identified ... Swamprocker loves his fryer and I am totally envious of you both.

It's not easy getting such hardware imported here to the UK and by the time you add shipping costs and import duty etc. it can be quite expensive, but maybe one day I will splash out and get one.

Anyhow good luck with your research. I enjoy reading your posts and I hope to hear and see that those Mirro Matics were 'restored to their former glory' and producing some great chicken once again.

Ken
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Magnus Max



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

Thank you for the kind words.

I’m still working on the resin. I got about half way done w/ rendering the fat from the grit & then had to set it aside for a bit, mainly due to an increase in my work and some other commitments . I hope to be wrapping that up soon.

I’m going to give the Malt Extract a try. In the past I’ve always bought it from a local brew/wine making supply shop. I don’t remember what brands names specifically that I’ve used, it’s been some time ago.

Today I finally received a pound of Jamaican Ginger powder & I’m expecting a pound of fresh Jamaican later this week (don’t know what I was thinking). I’m hoping to dehydrate some, freeze some and gift a couple of pieces to some Asian Chef friends of mine. But like you said…we have options if they don’t work out, LOL. My family and friends just shake their heads & even the mail delivery said last week…”this looks like it’s becoming a habit”. Amazon can be addictive.

Actually, I’ve been wanting to make some Ginger Ale & have been toying w/ the idea of making some Ginger beer also. It might be a great pairing to go w/ the chicken! Either way, I’m having fun & yes, I tend to hit things hard when I make up my mind to pursue an interest. I love a new challenge & attempting to discover the O.R. is the sort of challenge that I’ve been looking for. What makes it even more fun is finding a community w/ a common interest and a plethora of great existing info.

After grounding myself w/ all of the research & deciding to take the plunge on so much equipment and buying just about every S&H that has been tested…the scales seemed like the next logical step when it comes to trying to establish an accurate base line. I had a nice scale prior to this purchase, but made the mistake of loaning it out once to a friend, which he dropped.

As far as the KFC cookers go, they are very scarce to even find here. I’ve run searches almost daily for several months to find the ones that I have. The first one was over-pressurized & has quite a bit of wobble on the bottom, which inspired me to find the second unit…so I traded out parts between the two.

Had I not found these units & something you or anyone else might wish to consider…There are quite a few Mirro Matic 16 qt. units for sale on Ebay. Most have the short handles , but occasionally there are some w/ the long handles & sometimes there will be a seller who has an extra set of long handles for sale. The 15# jiggler’s can be found all day long…not the one w/ the grab knob on top, but something very close, as well as the cookie shaped ones, which are most popular. The gaskets can be purchased online.

As far as adding additional valves…there is an updated Wisconsin valve (not cheap -$34. US) which can be purchased online, including Amazon. The right size holes can be drilled and tapped (threaded) rather easily at home or any local machine shop for anyone not interested in doing it themselves.

With doing all of that, you would essentially have an almost exact replica, minus the red metal KFC tag & your chances of finding a barely used unit would be much better also. Many people get them as gifts or use them only once, due to the fear of all the stories they’ve been told. I know those costs add up quickly, but occasionally there are deals to be had.

I’m not 100% convinced that all the valves are completely necessary, but they do work impressively well. I added two new Wisconsin valves & a pressure gauge. After the first two batches, I felt very comfortable using it…which I did outside (my BBQ has a side burner, which worked perfectly). The steam release puts on quite a show. The pressure gauge consistently held around 14-14.5 PSI. & had no problem maintaining pressure even after turning down the flame. Once I turned it down, I never had to mess w/ it again until it was time to open & release.

The first batch I heated the oil to 400 F...it seemed to brown too quickly. The next two batches I dropped at around 375F, which ended w/ a much better result.

I'm just starting to get the hang of this, but also having a good oil filter & using the other pot for filtering between batches made the job a whole lot easier.

Thanks again Ken,

Magnus Max
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