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KFC Salt Bags
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dprovo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

On a side note:

There are some spice producers up in Northern California that I sent them 99x too. As soon as it arrived his wife opened up the canister and said wow I smell a lot of ginger sage and white pepper.
This was before we actually found ginger under the microscope in 99X.

Yet something strange occurred once they sent it off to be replicated. The replicated sample had no ginger, no sage and no coriander. Amateur night or done on purpose?

Dustin

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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dprovo wrote:

I also noticed T.C and I use the same weight per tsp of ground ginger spice, so so by calculation that would be about 2.9oz using AP four, and 4oz using cake soft flour the same flour C.S used early on. If one were to use AP flour and obtain 4oz you would have to add about 3/4tsp per cup.

From the story it appears that the 4oz was being added to the already corporate spice packet, and there is no way to tell what amount of ginger spice was already present to get ratios. It just appears to me that the domestic ginger wasn't providing anything. 1sp to me seems excessive, as it will alter all the rest of the spices and herbs, I will have to trial it.

Dustin,

I think you are saying here that TC34D perhaps ought to be using 3/4 tsp ginger per cup of flour in some instances depending on the type of flour instead of 5/16 tsp as currently shown in the recipe. That's quite a big difference.

It is suggested that my recent recipe could be increased to 1 tsp of ginger, but that is for two cups of flour, so perhaps it's not too excessive.

If TC34D proves correct and the ginger level is raised to 3/4 tsp, then that means my recipe would need to go up further to 1+1/2 tsp ginger... I think that sounds excessive... That is the sort of level that would probably have caused Tommy Settle to make comment about it, perhaps?

Like you, I think the levels sounds excessive... It would be the same level/amount as black pepper in my recipe. But I guess I should never rule anything out before trying it.

I currently use 1/3 tsp of ginger per cup in the recipe, a smidgen more than TC34D

1/2 tsp ginger per cup, sounds more than enough to me and is almost twice the amount that is presently in TC34D as it stands at the moment, perhaps it is a reasonable 'first-step' compromise.

I need to try these different levels too at some stage.
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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got these two sets of recommended ratios from the Marion Kay website.. This is what they recommend today for use with their 99-X chicken seasoning:

25oz 99-X seasoning
3lbs salt
25lbs flour

25lbs of flour is 11349.823g (see below)

Which 'almost' matches the KFC current ratios from what I can gather at the moment. KFC uses 26oz of seasoning.

The site scales this down to...
4 cups flour - 600g
5 tsp salt - 25g
2 tbsp 99-X seasoning 30g

Note that is 150g of flour per cup, which I agree is correct weight for one cup of flour.

That equates to 75.67 cups of flour in a 25lb bag... For whichever type of flour they use?

Then there is 1.25 tsp of salt per cup
And a half tablespoon (7.5g) of seasoning per cup of flour.

I wonder if these are the correct ratios that we should be working to or whether they have purposely or been instructed to water them down by reducing the ratio of seasoning to flour?

I usually aim for 10g of seasoning per cup (not counting my other elements which include salt etc) .. Recipe - X, is approximately 10.75g per cup. That's 21.5g for the two cups so perhaps it is a little high?

By the Marion Kay ratios I should be using slightly more salt 2.5 tsp for two cups of flour and I presently use only 2 tsp, but sprinkle a little more salt on after frying (that's how I like it).

The Marion Kay recommendation of 1/2 tablespoon (7.5g) of seasoning seems a little low... I would probably up it to 10g myself, that's approx. 2 tsp like Dustin mentions.
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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dprovo wrote:

Ken,

The current spice packet uses lists: salt, and garlic powder.

So you can see it's not garlic salt. Some outlets in California use a 40oz spice packet. I need to further talk to the franchise and see how much salt to flour they use per packet. I posted a picture of it.

Dustin


Dustin,
I just popped out and bought a jar of local brand garlic salt, just to see what ingredients it says on the back... Here is a photo of the contents for what it's worth. Not sure that takes things any further though:

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dprovo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

Doesn't mean anything as there are many more that list salt, garlic powder in that order.

Oh and the reason Marion Kay use Salt separate 3lbs to 25oz 99X spice mix is because salt is heavy and the container would have to be bigger to handle the added weight.

Dustin

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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustin,

Looking at the Marion Kay 99-X ratios on their website:
4 cups of flour (600g)
5 tsp salt (25g)
2 tablespoon 99-X seasoning (30g)

Which they have scaled down themselves (also on website) from:
25lbs of flour
3lbs salt
25oz 99-X seasoning

Then they are saying for every cup of flour use 1.25 tsp of salt.
That's how I read it and the ratios are almost the same as the KFC bags... I say almost as the KFC seasoning bag is 26oz.

Assuming Marion Kay started out with the Colonels O.R. and even assuming they have watered down this recipe, these ratios are telling me that today's KFC is possibly using 1.25 tsp of salt per cup of seasoned flour.

It means to me that the salt in my recipe needs to be increased from 2 tsp to 2.5 tsp for the 2 cups of flour (300g)... Just a first step in making some changes to the other elements.

I noticed on the 'garlic salt' ingredients list that garlic powder appears far far above onion powder so I looked at several products that contain these two ingredients and often garlic powder is listed before onion powder, so my train of thought is that there maybe less onion powder compared to garlic. Although somewhere on this forum it says they are often used by the industry in equal amounts.

So I aim to reduce the garlic powder to 1/2 tsp and the onion powder should drop further to 1/4 tsp for my next trial.

I was planning to leave the sugar and MSG levels the same for now.

So the 'other elements' would now look like this:

Salt - 2.5 tsp
Sugar - 2 tsp
MSG - 1.5 tsp
Garlic Powder - 0.5 tsp
Onion Powder - 0.25 tsp

Just wondered what you think to these changes or if you may have any suggestions.

I am still considering the adjustments to the main 11 spices and herbs, which I find is even more difficult when trying to keep them as whole ingredients or 1/2, 1 or 2 teaspoonfuls and whilst attempting to keep the overall weight and volume down to around 10.5g per cup.

I think the consensus is that ginger powder should be increased to 1/2 tsp per cup, but that's as far as I have got.
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dprovo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken_Griffiths wrote:
Dustin,

Looking at the Marion Kay 99-X ratios on their website:
4 cups of flour (600g)
5 tsp salt (25g)
2 tablespoon 99-X seasoning (30g)

Which they have scaled down themselves (also on website) from:
25lbs of flour
3lbs salt
25oz 99-X seasoning

Then they are saying for every cup of flour use 1.25 tsp of salt.
That's how I read it and the ratios are almost the same as the KFC bags... I say almost as the KFC seasoning bag is 26oz.

Assuming Marion Kay started out with the Colonels O.R. and even assuming they have watered down this recipe, these ratios are telling me that today's KFC is possibly using 1.25 tsp of salt per cup of seasoned flour.

It means to me that the salt in my recipe needs to be increased from 2 tsp to 2.5 tsp for the 2 cups of flour (300g)... Just a first step in making some changes to the other elements.


Ken,

25lbs of flour
3lbs salt
25oz 99-X seasoning

This extrapolates too:

For one cup of flour (5 oz.) add 1 tablespoon of 99x and 1 tablespoon salt
and mix well

1 cup flour
1 tblsp 99x
1 tblsp salt

Dustin

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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dustin,

Another bit of confusion for me, because the Marion Kay website actually says this... (See photo - screen shot of their website):
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I wouldn't mind if this was just a small discrepancy, but in this case it is double the amount they are stating... No wonder I am confused!
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dprovo
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

I have no idea why it doesn't match. That was from the president of Marion Kay, plus it is the same extrapolation posted by T.C on Marion Kay's mixing ratios if you want to take a look.

Dustin

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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I don't doubt your words at all Dustin. You strike me as a person of great integrity and i very much appreciate your vast experience in all these matters.

Sometimes things just don't add up and I guess things are sometimes just that way.

I will continue to take it all in and process the information and try to draw conclusions and add to the research in any way I can.

Thanks very much for all your help, information and explanations. Everything is appreciated.
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