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The Chook Cook's Fried Chicken Recipe
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The Chook Cook



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 99
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: The Chook Cook's Fried Chicken Recipe Reply with quote

Lest be serious here, no one can remember what KFC tasted like back in the 1960's~1970's because over time our memories change and so do our tastes, I can not remember what something tasted like from 2 weeks ago, but then again I am touching 50 Laughing , so the chance of me remembering the taste of KFC O.R. from 1975 is completely and utterly impossible, face it we may claim we remember, but the truth of the matter is we do not.

As we age our tastes change, foods I hated as a child I now enjoy and foods I enjoyed as a child I now hate. Over the course of my life I have traveled the world and have enjoyed foods from all different countries and cultures, and I have eaten Burger King, McDonalds, Dominos Pizza, Pizza Hut and Kentucky Fried Chicken in 90% of the places I have traveled and I can tell you now from experience that every single country the Burgers, Pizzas and Fried Chicken all tasted completely different.

Kentucky Fried Chicken in Australia, China, England, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, South Africa, and the USA have all tasted completely different, some have been extremely spicy, some extremely salty, some had no taste what so ever, some or should I say most very greasy, some the breading stayed on the chicken and others it stayed in the box.

So the chance of me or in fact anyone knowing the real tastes of Sanders Fried Chicken from the 1960's~1970's is impossible because no one is making what Sanders created. And the rubbish you buy now is not what Sanders created, it has been watered down in spices and upped in salt and MSG.

I am not here to try and replicate Sanders O.R. because I cannot remember the taste, But I remember reading that Sanders stated that all the Herbs & Spices can be found in anyones cupboard. He stated this back in the 1960's and was taking about American peoples cupboards in the 1960's doing research over the years and talking to a lot of friends in the USA most people in the 1960's had basic herbs and spices in their cupboards, there was nothing fancy and most of the herbs and spices were locally produced, so going on that fact I have been working on my own recipes using what would have been in most peoples cupboards in Corbin, Kentucky 1960's

These were the common Herbs and Spices found in peoples homes in the 1960's

Bay leaves
Basil
Caraway Seeds
Cardamom
Cayenne pepper
Chili powder
Cinnamon
Cloves
Coriander
Cream of tartar ----- Why is this classed as a Spice or Herb I have no idea, but was common in the 1960's
Cumin
Curry powder
Dill Weed
Fennel Seed
Garlic
Ginger
Mace
Marjoram
Mint
Mustard
Nutmeg
Onion
Oregano
Paprika
Parsley
Peppercorns
Red Pepper Flakes
Rosemary
Safron
Sage
Savory
Tarragon
Thyme
Turmeric

I have tried so many KFC clones. copies and what people claim is the true recipe and 80% of the time they have been bad and I mean really bad .. Salt and Sugar are not spices or herbs but people have claim that they are part of the 11. MGS is not a spice or a herb either and the same. and I am pretty sure Lipton Tomato Soup packets were not around in the 1960's

If I can make a Friend Chicken that pleases the whole family, that is not too salty, too greasy and tastes better then what you buy now days then I will be happy.

This is my latest recipe.

I use a mix of Peppercorn and count that as 1 spice.

Mixed Pepper
Paprika
Sage
Basil
Savory
Ginger
Marjoram
Onion Powder
Garlic Powder
Cayenne Chilli Powder
Nutmeg

The amounts I am still playing with.


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This was made last night and now in a dark place for a few weeks to help the Herbs and Spices blend, no salt or MSG added yet.


And for when you go camping. Saw this on the net when researching chicken recipes.


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Make KFC anytime any where.


Last edited by The Chook Cook on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chook,

I can tell you're an Aussie, mate... Straight down the line Wink

Well agree to disagree over the taste/memory issue, as my own memory of the first time I tasted the O.R. is very distinct and clear... I still have "flashbacks" even to this day, when I'm mixing up certain herbs and spices, and the famous aroma which use to surround all KFC stores was quite an indelible one.

Anyway, your first recipe is most impressive. It's obvious you've done some amount of research. Wink

Keep up the great work, and it's wonderful to have you here!

TC

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Stringbean
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi The Chook Cook,

I don't agree....I can remember how it tasted in the late 70s much like how Kit Kats and Aero bars tasted wayyyy better as a child than the awful stuff they sell now.
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The Chook Cook



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 99
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My comments are based on SCIENCE .. Medical Science that proves that human brains memories change over time ... So like it or not what you think you remember is not what is fact.

Look up

'Study Confirms Memories Change Over Time'
'Memory Of Events Changes With Retelling '
'Brain Distorts Memories Every Time It Recalls Them'
'How Memory Changes With Age'

I am a man of science .. and science ONLY!
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Ken_Griffiths



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Posts: 854

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each person is individual and some have good palettes/senses and others can have poor taste, feel, smell and vision etc. I don't think anyone can say for certain if a person can remember a taste or not, scientifically or otherwise. We are all so different and individual.

I remember the taste of some retro-sweets and biscuits, which I have seen in recent times in some 'fashionable' old-fashioned looking sweet shops and some I purchased, tasted exactly as I remember them.

But a biscuit I bought recently (wagon wheel) tasted nothing like I remember them ... Probably because my wagon wheels came in paper wrappers and this latest one was in a new fangled foil wrapper, effectively keeping it fresher and changing its texture and taste and probably it's colour. It certainly did not taste how I remembered them, but there were 'similarities'.

If the colonel's recipe was the same the world over, I would agree that collectively we should be all able to identify it. In truth though I know that the ingredients are often locally supplied by each country (where possible). However I also believe certain core ingredients are exported/imported into some countries. I have seen evidence that ginger is one such ingredient and I also suspect vanilla is too.

Chook cook, I can't see how you don't have vanilla on your list of ingredients, as that spice is what helped Bill Summers establish his Marion Kay business and we all know he was a very 'good and lifelong' friend of the Colonel.

I'm sort of 'half way house' on some things said in this thread.. If the ingredients were the same throughout the world, then you would hope that the locals will at least be able to reconstruct what they remember as their childhood taste of KFC chicken. If we were to get there and share that information we may be able to 'best guess' what the colonel's recipe may have been originally.

Some may try that 'finished/agreed' recipe and not like it quite as much as their childhood-recollected recipe, but despite that we may all agree the evidence that points (has led to) to the recipe.

What will make the task difficult, or almost impossible, is the suggestion that the corporation changed a few of the recipe ingredients completely in some countries, to ensure ease of supply or maybe to comply with a nations own culinary tastes. I am certain they have changed the level of salt here in the UK compared to the U.S. is a classic example of that, but I don't personally think 'they' would go as far to change say cardamom for celery seed.. or marjoram for bay-leaf, (which incidentally, weigh the same per teaspoon) that is a step too far, in my book.

I'm sure before launch of the KFC corporate product, the supply chain of ingredients in that 'new' country and the nations local tastes would have been extensively researched and considered before such extensive corporate investment.

One thing we do have that is universal, to help each of us in our own research, is the photograph of the eleven vials, which no one has mentioned in this thread at all. The image of those ingredients was released to the world press in 1990 and was/is a strong inference that the recipe is the same the world over, even if some of the 11 herbs and spices are being supplied locally.

Using just those eleven vials as a reference, I don't think it matches the recipe given out here by chook cook... If you disagree, then try placing the 11 herbs and spices alongside each vial and show me how they match their content colour wise... That alone is telling me something isn't quite right with the selection made, even if it tastes correct to him. (Sorry chook cook, that's just my opinion).

To sum up ... I think the recipe ingredients the world over is there or thereabouts the same, but mostly herbs and spices are locally supplied and therefore that will undoubtedly bring differences in taste etc.

It is possible that some ingredients could have been swapped for some from the same 'family' ... The best examples of that is swapping 'savory' for 'thyme' or maybe Madagascan vanilla for Tahitian vanilla (or vice versa)... and I'm sure we all know how red pepper/cayenne/chilli can change. I can't prove such changes have taken place, but they are worth exploring in our research.

I do however think between us all we could find a universal tasting recipe using our own local 'popular' herbs and spice brands and collectively we may go onto find the 'highly likely' original recipe that the colonel sold for $2000,000.

I also think some of the maths used here at TCK is important in the quest to find the true answer, as it shows how some ingredients 'weights and volumes' will (or won't) fit many of the colonel's containers that he used, such as the documented 26oz plastic bag and the 100lb barrel.

One example of my remark, is I can say mathematically that cardamom which weighs 2g per teaspoon in a 10g spice recipe (13g, if you include other elements) for use with 200g of flour, would not fit any of the colonel containers at a level of 3/64 tsp or 3/32 tsp or 3/16 tsp, but it could fit at 1/64 tsp, 1/32 tsp, 1/16 tsp or 1/8 tsp.

It's things like that which may support our research and eventually between us all, we may find the answer to the colonel's recipe, which so far, has remained a world-wide secret for well over 60 years.

Make no mistake this is a steep uphill battle, but TCK members 'together' have the best chance I have ever encountered, to find the answer.

It actually would not surprise me if the TCK forum already holds the answer amongst it's many posts over its (almost) 10 year history.

The best chance here, is to put aside all differences, share and work together.

Ken
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The Colonel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken_Griffiths wrote:

The best chance here, is to put aside all differences, share and work together.

Ken


I just felt this was worth repeating...

Great stuff, as always, Ken Wink

TC

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Stringbean
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Joined: 01 Feb 2011
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chook Cook wrote:
My comments are based on SCIENCE .. Medical Science that proves that human brains memories change over time ... So like it or not what you think you remember is not what is fact.

Look up

'Study Confirms Memories Change Over Time'
'Memory Of Events Changes With Retelling '
'Brain Distorts Memories Every Time It Recalls Them'
'How Memory Changes With Age'

I am a man of science .. and science ONLY!


i don't disagree with that..but we do remember something....and obviously we don't have it here 100%
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The Chook Cook



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 99
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

Going on the information I have collected over the past 15+years in the 1960's American families did not have vanilla beans in their homes and one of the reasons is because it was the second most expensive spice after saffron, at todays prices vanilla in 1960's would have been close to $800 per kilo, some families did have vanilla extract and if they did have vanilla beans, they would have had the more common type bourbon vanilla beans as 80% of the worlds vanilla at that time was from Madagascar.

Now going on what Sanders said, all the herbs and spices can be found in anyone's cupboard ... and as vanilla was not a common spice at the time I excluded it from the list.


I have lived in most Australian cities, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane and I can honestly tell you that KFC between each city tastes completely different, not once have they tasted the same, and this was from 1987~1993 before I started living outside of Australia. In 2003 I was in Melbourne again for 2 weeks and basically lived off KFC and Burger King, then headed up to Brisbane for a week and did the same and again KFC was completely different between the two cities. and it was not always the same store.

So if people do remember the taste from the 1970's and as most on the forum are from different countries then I would say each person would remember the flavour from their home country and there would be no chance of anyone agreeing here on the 11 because everyone would remember a different tastes because of the country they reside in.


As for the photograph of the eleven vials, I think that was more of a KFC Corp gimmick, I have never and will never trust large multi-national companies, they are in the business of bullsh*tting to make suckers hand over their hard earned cash.
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Stringbean
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that I have wondered about consistency throughout all the restaurants world wide.

it could very well be that in each country the flavor maybe slightly different back in the day...i think we can all agree that today its consistently bad.

i mean province to province in Canada its not consistent...when I say i remember the taste...its the taste in Canada and that's what I can only go on. I have never had it in the US.

I have always said that a company is not going to tell you whats in their product.

Are they real? who knows...does it matter???
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The Chook Cook



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 99
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noticed people are using anise seed .. I cannot find any proof that anise seed was in peoples cupboards in the 1960's but both Fennel and Dill are substitutes for anise seed and was in peoples cupboards in the 1960's


Last edited by The Chook Cook on Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Chook Cook



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 99
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a happy little vegemite. Evil or Very Mad

Just pulled my cooker out of storage, have not used it in about 1 and year, last time I fried up some chicken the next morning told the wife to empty the cooker wash it and put it away, she just put it away with the oil still inside. Just spent the past hour cleaning it. The oil has beaded on the inside of the cooker and on the lid, sealing it shut, looks like I will need a new seal for it now. Did not know oil can go off, the smell was terrible. Crying or Very sad Having a new baby I have had no time to make up chicken, now he is about 1 year old decided to start cooking chicken again, only to discover this mess.


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Last edited by The Chook Cook on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chook Cook,

My own parents were born in the 1920s and whilst I wasn't born until the late 1950s I can remember my mom making her own vanilla ice cream when we were little so I presume she had some form of vanilla on her shelf. I have to be honest here though, I don't recall seeing it as a child, though my wife has used it in her kitchen since the mid 1970's, mainly for baking.

In 1956, clearly Bill Summers was selling a variety of Vanilla, including 'Vanilla Vanillin' etc. Here (below) is his poster and order form and its nowhere near the price you have claimed in your post. The poster shows the prices in 1956.

I'm fairly confident that the Colonel would have used some of the MK products in those days... Whether it was vanilla extract or essence etc. I can't say.

I don't think Vanilla is an ingredient I would dismiss out of hand, especially when you take a closer look at Vial C and the small gaps/structures that can be seen in that vial between the glass and the content. The vial also has quite a different texture/appearance compared to the other 10 vials.

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Ken
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Magnus Max



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For whatever it's worth...Having grown up in the Northern Mid-West of the US, I can tell you that all of those H&S would have been commonly found in most households...it didn't necessarily mean that they were all commonly used. Vanilla beans were not common to have on hand (probably due mostly to cost), vanilla extract (liquid) was however on everyone's shelves & commonly used.

Maple syrup was also very common in the North & I would guess it quickly found its way South, especially during the Industrial Revolution. Many Southern folk moved North post the Great Depression as factory jobs became more abundant up North, especially from roughly the 30's and well into the 70's...bringing their methods of cooking with them. Not everyone could afford Real Maple syrup (a tedious process to make) so there were also several Pancake & Waffle type syrup's produced, such as...Aunt Jemima, Log Cabin, Mrs. Butterworth's...to name a few brands. Most homes had at least one, unless you were wealthy...then it was real maple syrup. Within those syrups, you will find a mix that may include items such as corn syrup, molasses, and Vanilla extract. Karo syrup was very popular in the 50's and still is common today...it comes in dark & light (almost clear). Brown sugar (light & dark) would also be on every bakers shelves.

It may help to realize that "spice racks" were in probably most kitchens that were sold as a set. A common gift back in the day when women were much more domesticated, performing the daily cooking & baking...if not for themselves, than for church pot lucks, school fund raisers, girl/boy scouts, etc. I'd have to say that it was often times much like a competitive sport during the 50's thru the 1970's. Prior to that, there were probably even more baking type competitions for community events and such.

I'd like to say that most of those spice sets (even if purchased separately) were typically McCormick brands...at least where I'm from. Even though MK is only a little more than 300 miles from me, my family wasn't familiar with their products. Of course other brands existed, McCormick just dominated is all. Everyone knows McCormick.

As far as how or which seasonings were utilized from those sets...it may help to look at both religion and nation of origin. For example...my ancestry was entirely European & Roman Catholic. The US being a huge melting pot, as it is sometimes called, during the early stages of the Industrial revolution, most Europeans who came into the US, including my own family from the turn of the century, typically settled North (where the manufacturing & building jobs were)...say from New York (heading West) to Chicago was the hot spot...generally "The Great Lakes" region, where the port authorities existed and where the great cities were initially built.

The Southern states were historically heavy agriculture, also mining. The most common religion would be Baptist in the Southern states & the roots of most religions will dictate somewhat the nations of origin, recipe's, methods of cooking and the seasonings used...which is why I believe that many "spice racks" found in most kitchens you would notice some spices favored, while others may seldom or never get used...they looked nice hanging on a kitchen wall though. Sometimes I think it was more for show, as to the competitive mind set amongst the "Betty Crocker" generation. I think every housewife had at least one Betty Crocker cookbook, if not a whole set accumulated over a few decades past down from previous generations.

There were also "dry" communities (alcohol restrictions) within some Baptist communities (which still exist today in roughly 39/120 or so counties), which probably had an impact on things like vanilla extract..."Pure vanilla extract contains a defined level of natural vanilla and a minimum of 35% alcohol, by FDA standards. Imitation vanilla extracts are made with synthetic vanilla, called vanillin, a manufactured flavor that replicates the natural vanilla flavoring agent". Lake Cumberland happens to be one of those dry areas, as I learned the hard way, the first time I took a trip there.

I may be falling off the rail here just a bit, so I digress. I thought I'd throw a few things out there to illustrate a point of how the Colonel would have evolved from his own mothers ways of cooking.

I believe there is a lot of merit starting with poultry seasoning as the foundation. I personally don't have 100% faith in the vials, considering the marketing methods used here...there is some truth, just not 100%. In the US, IMO, marketing and deception are synonymous...always have been. The roots of marketing would be "snake oil & tonic salesmen"...evolving to modern day pictures of food that don't look anything like the Photoshop images, once purchased. Rolling Eyes
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Ken_Griffiths



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnus Max,

I found your post extremely interesting and very informative. I'm not from the U.S. but I'm sure everything you say is entirely accurate. I'm still convinced that vanilla, whether it be extract, imitation or essence etc. is something that cannot be ruled out of the original recipe. I include vanillin in that list and maple 'flavoured' syrup which was also made by McCormicks incidentally and contains vanilla... There was also many families that made their own, using corn syrup and vanilla flavouring.

My parents (and my wife and I) have all had the 'essential' household spice rack as 'gifts' from the family and it's so true that some herbs and spices get used often, while others remain dormant, sometimes for years. I'm sure we all know how true that is.

However, It's the colonel's association with Bill Summers that convinces me that some form of vanilla is in the O.R. and that vial C is a 'strong' candidate as a representation for that ingredient... I accept also that such vials could well be a 1990's ('photo-shopped') equivalent representative of the actual ingredient used.

It still means we shouldn't dismiss things entirely, because we believe they were too expensive, like 'true' maple syrup ... That is still very expensive today ... But the truth is we know that the colonel could have used some form of imitation, even if the vials may actually contain the 'real' thing.

So my opinion is...

I'm quite convinced that vial C is possibly pure vanilla bean, but I reckon it started off in the colonel's recipe as either maple flavoured syrup or vanilla extract (or even vanilla sugar) and later became perhaps vanilla powder or vanilla infused corn syrup, dextrose and/or maltodextrin.

I am quite happy in my own research that allspice berries are not in the O.R. and that vial E is Clove, so I struggle to see what else vial C can be, given its colour, unusual appearance, compared to the other vials and the gaps and texture that are evident at the bottom left hand side of the vial.

I keep searching for other herbs and spices that may match the content of vial C, but each time I return to it being vanilla.

Some have suggested Black Garlic, which was discovered years later and is created by storing garlic in a vacuum and heating it for a length of time, but the main argument for me against that theory, is that black garlic is neither a herb nor a spice, it is in fact a vegetable.

Until someone can suggest otherwise, my money is still firmly on vial C being vanilla and was put in there by the colonel as part of the sweetness element of the recipe.

This of course, is just my opinion and I appreciate many still disagree with this viewpoint, but vanilla does seem to work well for me in my own recipes.

Ken
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The Chook Cook



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am more of the belief that vial C is ground fennel


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